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Minutes of Online GA 2017-1

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Agenda PPI online General Assembly
--- [22/04/2017 10:00]h CEST ---
Room: "/international/pirate parties international/board meeting"
Audio recording:

Record of the meeting


1.1 - Ordinary members

List of Delegates for the 2017 Online GA, April 22nd

  • Austria Pirate Party Austria
  • Belarus Pirate Party Belarus
  • Belgium Pirate Party Belgium
collective team, special mumble nick: PPBE_PPI_delegates

at 10:39: Koen De Voegt, Jo Clarysse

at 11:05: joined by James Poulson

at 11:20: Jo Clarysse left

at 11:33: joined by Tim Van Oosterwyck

at 12:00: joined again by Jo Clarysse

  • Brazil Partido Pirata do Brasil
  • Bulgaria Pirate Party Bulgaria
  • Catalonia Catalonia Pirates de Catalunya (1/2 vote)
  • Croatia Pirate Party Croatia
  • Czech Republic Pirate Party Czech Republic (1)
Vojtěch Pikal, 1st deputychairman, international coordinator for PPI (Vojtech.Pikal)
  • Estonia Pirate Party Estonia
Eero Elvisto (e|elvisto; eelvisto)
Märt Põder (tramm_)
  • Finland
  • France Parti Pirate France
Etienne Evellin (Aurifex)
Transferred vote to Muriel (Catalonia)
  • Germany Piratenpartei Deutschland
Gregory Engels
Sebastian Krone
Alexander Spies (asPirat)
Adam Wolf
Thomas Gaul (ThomasG)
Mickey Sinclair ( mickmacburns)
    • Reserve Delegates:
Guido Körber (TheBug)
Oliver Herzig (Exile)
  • Greece Pirate Party Greece
  • Israel Pirate Party Israel
Ohad Shem Tov, chairperson
Noam Kuzar, vice
Keith Goldstein, international coordinator, KeithG
  • Italy Partito Pirata Italiano
Aram Gurekian (Aram-PPIT)
  • Japan Pirate Party Japan
  • Kazakhstan Pirate Party Kazakhstan
  • Latvia Pirātu Partija
  • Luxembourg Pirate Party Luxembourg
  • Morocco Pirate Party Morocco
  • Netherlands Pirate Party Netherlands
  • New Zealand Pirate Party of New Zealand
Andrew Reitemeyer (AndrewReitemeyer)
  • Norway Piratpartiet
Anders Kleppe (AndersKleppePP-NOintTeam)
Raymond Johansen (RaymondJohansen)
  • Poland Pirate Party Poland
Zbigniew Łukasiak, International Coordinator, zby
Tomasz Kisielewski, Vice-Chairperson, timorl
  • Portugal Partido Pirata Portugues
  • Romania Pirate Party Romania
  • Russia Pirate Party Russia
Nikolay Voronov (Vice Chair, International coordinator), Alexvox
  • Slovakia Pirate Party Slovakia
  • Slovenia Pirate Party Slovenia
  • Spain Pirate Party Spain (1/2 vote)
  • Switzerland Pirate Party Switzerland
Stefan Thöni, Co-President of PPS
Kilian Brogli, Vice-President of PPS and International Coordinator.
Guillaume Saouli, Taz
  • Tunisia Pirate Party Tunisia
  • Turkey Pirate Party Turkey
  • Ukraine Pirate Party Ukraine

For Estonia there are two fractions of PPEE attending the oGA, and there are 2 representatives, in regards to the statutes of PPI, the question is to have a shared vote between the two organisations' representatives.

A vote is to be made by the delegates to agree on this proposed solution.

The discussion is closed by the presentation of the bylaws, minutes of Estonian. The documents presented are legitimate and PPEE has two delegates and they have a full vote as PPEE

Official printout of PP-EE board who are eligible to represent the party:

1.2 - Observer members

  • Internet Party of Serbia (POKRET NAPRED)
  • Pirates without Borders
  • Pirate Party of Berlin (Piratenpartei Berlin)
  • Best Party Iceland (Besti Flokkurinn)
  • Pirate Party of Bavaria
  • Pirate Party of Florida
  • Pirate Party of Hesse
  • Pirate Party of La Rioja (Spain)
  • Pirate Party of Lower Saxony
  • Pirate Party of New York
  • Pirate Party of North Rhine-Westfalia
  • europe beyond division e.V. Formerly: Young Pirates of Germany
  • Young Pirates Sweden (Ung Pirat)
  • Pirate Party of Tyrol (Austria)
  • Pending the decision for being admitted as Observer Member
  • Pirate Lobby, France
  • Pirate Party Potsdam

1.3 - Counting Votes

  • 36 (24 recognized from member contact) + 2x 1/2 votes possible = Quorum 1/3 = 12,33 (8)
  • Correction because of § XI Voting (5)
Any Ordinary Member which has failed to pay its annual affiliation fee up to and including the end of the fiscal year preceding the General Assembly meeting shall forfeit its right to vote at that meeting of the General Assembly, unless remission or postponement of dues has received prior authorization from the Board.
Parties who are not eligible to vote:
  • Austria Pirate Party Austria
  • Bosnia and Herzegovina
  • Bulgaria Pirate Party Bulgaria
  • Croatia Pirate Party Croatia
  • Finland
  • Hungary
  • Japan Pirate Party Japan
  • Kazakhstan Pirate Party Kazakhstan
  • Latvia Pirātu Partija
  • Morocco Pirate Party Morocco
  • Slovakia Pirate Party Slovakia
  • South Korea
  • Turkey Pirate Party Turkey
  • Votes present: 8

Quorum established with/not established with: 10




Meeting opened at 10:00 CEST by Guillaume Saouli
  • To be elected:
Guillaume Saouli (GSA) and Thomas Gaul (TGA)
Minute keepers:
Keith Goldstein - KeithG and Bailey Lamon
Raymond Johansen and ,Mickey Sinclair
Streaming started: started
Recording started:

There was a request to allow Estonia to split its vote owing to two groups showing up.

19:10 Quorum reached (10 or 9 countries)



No objections to the rules of proceedure.


Minutes of the last General Assembly:

Are there any objections to the minutes?

Zby indicates that the rules of proceedure are for offline meetings, and we cannot follow them as they are. Thomas indicated that they were adopted. Guillaume clarifies that it is Article 7a for online assembly permits these rules to be used online.

5 - Role call - Acceptance of Members

We have had three applications. One arrived late, which will be dealt with at the following assembly.

  • One application came in late. Will be dealt with at the following GA

5.1 - Pirate Lobby - Observer Pirate Lobby, France

Are there any questions that PPI can answer about the organization? Is there anyone present from PP France who is present to speak about this? This is the first time that they have heard about this party, but we need to check if they fulfill the requirements for a member.

The aim of the organization is not political, but rather it is an activist gathering association. It is already recognized by Pirates without Borders as a collective. They are abiding by the charter of PPI. (PP BE arrived in the middle of the vote)

There is a proceedural measure that what we are voting on is included in the minutes.

We voted on whether to accept Pirate Lobby France.

  • Decision: Pirate Lobby will be accepted as observer member
  • Votes Yay (3)
  • Votes Nay (0)
  • Votes abstain (8)
  • Result: The member was accepted with 3 voting yes and 8 abstaining.

5.2 - Piraten Potsdam - Observer Piraten Potsdam, Germany

Thomas Gaul is present as the treasurer of this organization. There is a point that we should have as many observers as possible, so perhaps there is not a need for debate. There is another counter point about why Piraten Potsdam would be a subdivision of another member and also an observer. The question is given if Piraten Potsdam is a legal organization, which can make decisions on its own, and the answer is that yes it is.

  • We are voting on whether to accept Piraten Potsdam as an observer.
  • Vote on: Accept as observer member
  • Votes Yay: (10)
  • Votes Nay: (0)
  • Votes Abstain: (1)

Result: We have a final result of 10 yay, 0 nay, and 1 abstain. The decision is accepted.

6 - Statutory Approval of the Annual Reports

6.1 - Presentation of the activity report

Guillaume informs us that the current board has spent 3000 working hours to make it move, to streamline elements, to make an online voting system work, and fix the administrative quagmire. We have not completed all of our tasks, but we are moving forward.

The first milestone is that after years we have created a real bank account for PPI in the name of PPI, where we can collect dues, funding, and crowdfunding. This in itself is a huge step forward. It makes the life of the treasurer easier. This took up a lot of time. It went slower than we were anticipating.

The IT structure has not been maintained as it should be for the past 4 years. We received an eviction notice on our IT, and we had to make . Etac, a Swiss based organization has helped us. We put the PPI infrastructure under a glass jar. We are currently relocating all of the services to a new structure. This means taking away structures such as the wiki, which is currently hosted by the German party. This means that we would make the Wiki its own site with its own back ups. This also means securing the mailing lists and all the other applications that we have, such as Redmine. This is why some of the services are down, because we are transferring the services to a new platform.

The ECOSOC application. We are currently in the formal process of being heard by the UN. We are working on that with the board and Richard Hill, who we thank for his support and availability on that matter.

A lot of work has been done on the activism through the work of Ray and Bailey. A lot of time has been spent to redevelop and enhance the social network visibility of PPI, so that we have an institutional presence so that we do not lose the communication with the current supporters. We have done a tremendous amount of work with governance.

In September we set up an online voting system, so that delegates can make decisions that are presented by the board or through a referendum of delegates, so that the board takes that and makes due process. This way we have a long-term process and democratic debate.

Questions regarding the clarification of where we were registered, and so on. Also can we send that information out to the mailing list and so forth? In Switzerland there is no need for an organization to be registered to have an existence, as long as there are board members who signed statutes. At the moment that the minutes are signed, those are legally binding documents that demonstrate the existence for an organization, so that there are not requirements to be registered. As an NGO there will be a need to be registered NGO to receive subsidies, hence until this point it is not necessary. Most of the NGOs in Switzerland are not registered with a Chamber of Commerce or state secretary, and with those documents (without registration) we can open a bank account and work as an organization. The registration will have a cost, which will take place in May.

In order to send a legal invoice for Norway, they need a registered number and this is a problem for them. Switzerland handles VAT by associating it to a number, but this is something different. They are talking about an organizational number. The solution to this problem will probably not be solved in this room at this time. We are aware of them. An invoice is regulated by the country that sends out the invoice. There is the question/comment that PPI is not a political party, and whether it would have different rules. However, it is commented that regardless the organization does not require registration to submit invoices.

The mailing list is not very active. What is the best place to receive the most recent news where we can improve communication? The most active place for information on PPI is on social media, most especially Twitter. There is also Facebook, Redmine, a Telegram Channel (global pirates) with about 60 parties present. These are the active ways of communicating, in addition to the email lists.

6.2 - Presentation of the 2016 financial statement

6.2.1 Presentation of the accounts by the treasurer

For the first time in the history of PPI, we have been collecting membership dues. It has been a complex and hardeous tasks, as we need to identify the current contact infos of the PPI members, and tally the members in order to assert the membership fee.


  • Server, approx. 748 euros/year


  • Banking fee:5 CHF/year
  • PPI HQ yearly statutory filing: 123€
  • Budgeted one time registration fee related to NGO statut with Federal and State authority: 400 CHF


1) Payment of server: 750 euros (awaiting exact cost receipt, although an estimate was made of annual operating cost of 748 euros/year)

2) Payment for Belgian authority organization filing for 2015 and 2016 registration: ~123 euros+ (awaiting exact cost receipt, although an estimate was made of 123 euros)

3) Payment of Swiss NPO filing: +~375 euros (,,, estimate made of 400 CHF as a one time payment with no need to make further annual payments).

4) Annual banking fee: ~5 euros

5) Repayment of liabilities: ~2000 euros

6) Future expenses for additional conferences or items not stated: ??? euros

Domain name for 2017 15 euros (Payment made of 15 euros in June 2016)


7) Estimated income from 2015 national membership fees: 1377 euros (Currently received approximately 360 euros)

8) Estimated income from 2016 national membership fees: ~1377 euros (Currently received approximately 300 euros)

9) Estimated income from individual membership fees of 2016: ~200 euros (20 individual member fees of 10 euros each were received, each payment was assessed a paypal fee of 0.69 euros)

10) Estimated income from individual membership fees of 2017: ~200 euros (To date, April 17, 2017, 6 fees of 10 euros each were received in Paypal and 1 in Postbank)

11) Future plans for additional fundraising: ??? euros (We have discussed beginning a crowdfunding campaign to finance future conferences and other projects)

12) Consolidation of Cashbox: ~968.94 euros (transferred to Postbank account)

13) Consolidation of Dexia account: ~225.92 euros (transferred to Postbank account)

14) Consolidation of SALE T-SHIRTS PIRATE SUMMER 2015 sales: ~109.92 euros (transferred to Postbank account)

15) *Future revenue not considered (please add by means of a comment to this post)

Total Estimated Liabilities:*+~1253 euros+*

Total Estimated Annual Funds:*+~1777 euros+* (Only about 360 +300=660 euros of the total estimated have been transferred, and we should not expect to receive the full amount as parties will request discounts or not pay)

Total Actual Funds:*+~2128 euros+* (286,96 in Paypal and 1831 in Swiss Postbank account, 1953.90 CHF)

6.2.2 Presentation of the review of the accounts by the lay auditor

Question: Is everyone satisifed with the report from the treasurer?

Why do we keep the PPI HQ? We needed it to have a registered entity, for example to apply for ECOSOC. If we were to dissolve the application then we would have to dissolve it and wait to register again. We keep it for formal reasons.

There is a comment that PPHQ is necessary as an administration, but there is a disagreement.

  • PPNO formally hold tight to the opinion that there is a need for an HQ, even in Switzerland. PPCZ seconds thet there is no need for two organizations.

The problem with the banking did not have to do with PPHQ, but rather it had to do with the fact that there were 3 people who signed up for a bank account and we lacked their documentation to close that bank account. PP Belgium is not opposed to the closing of PP HQ, but they do not recommend doing so at this time.

6.3 - Discharge to the treasurer

Does the GA accepts the financial report as presented and discharges the treasurer for his work on 2016 financial period?

  • Vote:
  • YAY: 11 (unanmously accepted)


  • NAY:

The decision was accepted with 11 yays, 0 nays, 0 abstains.

6.4 - Discharge to the board

Does the GA accepts the yearly report as presented and discharges the board for its work on 2016 period?

  • Vote:
  • YAY: (11) - unanimously

NAY: (0)


The decision was accepted with 11 yays, 0 nays, 0 abstains.

7 - Budget 2017 - 2018

Still speculatory as we are waiting on receipts.

- 7.1 Presentation

Pirate Security Conference 2018: 500 euros
2017 Future General Assembly: 4000 euros

- 7.2 Approval of the budget

Vote: Does the GA approve of the proposed 2017-2018 budget?

  • Yay: (9)
  • Nay: (0)
  • Abstain: 1

The decision was accepted with 9 yays, 0 nos, and 1 abstain. (1 country was not present)

Norway abstains because it thinks the budget needs to be more ambitious for a global organization.

PPCZ supports but not able to vote.

  • Crowdfunding plan to receive funds for an intern program and for future conferences

8 - Motions

8.1 Full Review of the statutes of PPI

MO-1 : Presented by PPCH

  • Delegate to the board a full review of the statutes of PPI covering coherence, wording and structure.

This does not have to do with what is described in the statutes, it merely has to do with the language to make it easier for a reader. The goal is to have a document that we can present at the next GA.

  • Vote: Does the GA approve of the MO-1?
  • Yay: (9)
  • Nay: (0)
  • Abstain: (1)
  • The motion is accepted with 9 yays, 0 nays, 1 abstain.

After note from PPCH, this statute does not mean that if we revise the statutes we cannot do ammendments, these are two parallel works.

Poland voted yes - and the abreviation is PP PL.

9 - Issue of statements

The representative of PPEE recognizes that the email was sent on the 11th of March and they want to confirm that there is a response to the email and otherwise

They would like to receive a confirmation regarding their request for the exception from affiliation fees. These fees are outlined in the following wiki:

The treasurer recognizes that Estonia should receive a response allowing them the cancellation of affiliation fees due to their lack of a budget. This will be presented to the board, and we don't foresee a problem.

It is recognized that there appears to be some discord in Estonia that should perhaps have some sort of arbitration. PP-EE's delegate does not see it as a very serious matter in itself, and thinks it is a matter of communicating with PP-EE's former member. The representative is happy to take part in arbitration if the situation requires it and thanks the board for its availability.

The board of PPI is available if there is a need for mediation. We are not seeking formal resolution, but rather to have an amicable solution without formal settlements.

There are many communication channels for PPI, perhaps there are too many of them. Perhaps we could stick to the mailing list? Could we stick to the leaders mailing list? The social media also has fruitful discussions, such as FB admins, Telegram. The mailing list works for formal distribution. The social media is more efficient for certain tasks that happen on an ongoing basis. There is a feeling though that many of the questions should also be included in the mailing list. We have also had problems with the mailing list. We are working on improving the communication and the attitude. We receive this recognition that there needs to be a formal communication channel, and will consider whether it should be the leaders email. The board will discuss this issue in the coming weeks.

The reference to the mentionned online democracy system is here:

We should not rely on Facebook, because it can be taken from under our feet. IRC has not been considered a viable means of communication among pirates. FB can be taken from under our feet, but so can any other service. Recently PPCH saved Wikileaks, as they discovered malwares. We can use plenty of tools in order to make things happen, people need to be in contact, they use FB, Twitter, but they do not use IRC anymore. We need to communicate fast and effectively. The board of PPI initiated an online democracy system, but no one has come and asked to use that system. No one came and looked into the minutes to check. The critique against the use of liquid democracy bothered the chairman. We have many board meetings that take place in different time zones, which are accesible. We have gone way beyond the point of making ourselves available. Delegates need to step up.

There is a request to thank the board for making the move that we have made, which is a very important step. The board has done an excellent job as far as PPNO sees it. We are able to talk with anyone they want whenever they need.

There is also a recognition that the board does not need to be defensive, as the board has gone deep into the problem, which is a good job. The comment is that we should try to improve stuff. Perhaps if we announced the online democracy tool on the mailing list perhaps more members would notice it.

There is a comment that it is difficult learning what we are doing, so we should look into a way that we can improve what we are doing to communicate our accomplishments.

It is not only our responsibility to reach out. There needs to be communication both ways. It has been quiet for the past 9 months. We have worked for weeks trying to get in touch with people. When we sent out our first email, we only received one answer. We saw the challenge from our side. Solving the communication problem is helped by having the addresses of where to contact everyone. We felt a little dejected by the grassroots side.

The frustration is understoood, and there are problems of communication. They want to mention that they learned about the online democracy system just now, and they did not know how to properly look for it. What they are trying to say is that the board is in a unique position, as there are many channels that are broadcasts. It would be good to broadcast further the online democracy system.

The point is that at least two delegates have not heard about our online democracy system.

The idea that we have written as a board a recent Pirate Times article, so perhaps we could write another article to advertise the online democracy system.

There is a proposal that perhaps it would be good if we could do more of this type of meeting, an international meeting, to improve communication and coordination, perhaps once a month or more periodically. This would allow us to be more productive, to work on projects together. In Norway they launched weekly membership meetings, where people discussed freely and openly their ideas. Maybe routine meetings would be beneficial. This could be especially beneficial at election times, where we could support one another. It would allow us to support one another .

Is there a working group on international collaboration in each country? Some countries have this, which could assist to promote this matter. In Germany they have a lot of experience to share, and they could promote this international collaboration meeting. Norway also has a team of 3 international collaboration experts. In Italy they were thinking that we would need a horizontal communication channel at the international level. They were thinking of proposing something like this so we could communicate from country to country more easily and not necessarily through delegates or international coordinators.

We still encourage everyone to come to our board meetings, to provide suggestions. You are always welcome at the board meetings.

We have a number of grassroots projects that we need to grow and sponsor. There are plenty of projects that need to be brought up and a lot of work that needs to be done. So, we need to put the right things in the right time sequence. So, if it seems that PPI is not moving fast enough, we need to present projects and have your feedback on the project. We need more responsiveness on administrative contacts. If we do not have working delegates and a voting process, then it is too late to collect all of the voices of its members. The vote is the acknowledgment of a debate and not the start of the debate. We need to foster the engagement and have more responsiveness from all members. Democracy is a work in progress throughout the year. These were meant to be tools for the development of ideas, to foster a productive sane debate. The technology isn't the only answer, but also the process.

There is a concern about the language that is used, a problem of expletive language, and not proper communication. We need to mobilize and receive input. Let's do meetings, let's meet on a regular basis. Come to the board meetings. They are there to accomodate everyone. We want to build a long-term mobilization path. If you have volunteers, people who want to help mobilize PPI, please send them to Bailey, Ray, and Keith. We are attempting to give you the means.

We shouldn't leave this meeting without a date and time to meet again like this.

We would also like to get volunteers who can assist us in doing all of the tasks, such as updating the Wiki, translating the documents, non-member contact, etc.

Suggestion to end the meeting and leave the Mumble Open for an Open discussion. Bailey and Ray suggest putting forward a document about how we will organize these meetings, and then they will send an invite to all of the members to participate, as it will be difficult to fix a time and framework at present.

The Online GA is ending at 12:46 CEST. Thank you to everyone for attending and for the organizers. We look forward to seeing you all again. This is the second Online GA.

10 - Outlook and open Discussion

The GA announces that if the person who is writing these statements below does not identify themselves, then the statements will not be included. Statements cannot be hidden.

(MINUTE TAKER IS TAKING A 5 minute break. Please write in the open discussion after the end of the GA if needed.>

The person writing the informations below has directly identified themselves as Eric Billes of PP France. Does PP France present these comments?

Rachael Tackett of the USA let us know that we should contact some of the national parties to contact the youth associations, such as in Sweden there is the young pirates. Great idea.

ThomasG (talk) 13:15, 22 April 2017 (CEST) yadlajoie : +

U'r welcome, sans arme ni haine ni violence / without arms or hatred or violence ->

-> Bonjour à tous et à tous / Hi all,

Veuillez cesser de donner le mauvais exemple

Please stop giving the wrong example

Si vous ne parvenez pas à promouvoir le logicel libre

If you are unable to free sofware (free as in freedom or free speetch, not as in free beer)

Veuillez ne pas défendre les solutions privatrices à tout prix.

Please stop defending copyrighted solution at all cost.

Pas comme ça / Not like this : or or (for examples).

Mais plutot comme ça (liste d'exemples non exhaustive)

But rather like that (list of non-exhaustive examples)

Suggestions :

PP-Fr now use Mastodon (social network)

PP-Fr now use DRUPAL for main website

We also encourage the use of Piwik

We also encourage the use of diaspora*

We also encourage the use of

We also encourage the use of Wordpress

PP-Fr also use Wiki


Reasons not to use (i.e., be used by) Facebook :

We fail to promote liquid democracy, in fact none of us use liquid democracy and a large majorty of us (including PPI) promote electronic/online vote.

We fail to defend free software (free as in freedom or free speech, not as in free beer). German pirate party only observe Munich resign to use gnu/linux and french pirate party don't care much about french gouvernement signing a partnership beetwen national education and microsoft.

I don't read a word about the case of Lagacé on Canadian pirate party or PPI, and the only news i get from Switzerland is the approval of intelligence act.

In jun, french pirate party will obtain the exact same score than the dutch pirate party in march. That's all we deserve and that's all i have to say.

  • Collaboration with Pirate Times

(There is no document on this link) ->

(Take a look at this one) ->

Suggestion to end the meeting and leave the Mumble Open for an Open discussion. Bailey and Ray suggest putting forward a document about how we will organize these meetings, and then they will send an invite to all of the members to participate, as it will be difficult to fix a time and framework at present.

  • Volunteers (interns)

11 - AOB - Any other business


Meeting Closed: 12:45 CEST (10:45 UTC) by Guillaume Saouli